Carl Barat, musician

In 2010, Carl Barat of Libertines fame came to Tokyo to promote his eponymous solo album, which was rather good. I interviewed him at the offices of the company promoting him in Japan.

Even though he was extremely jet-lagged and a bit dishevelled, he allowed me to video the interview. Here is the interview itself and the tape-script. The article that this produced can be read here or here, while a couple of quotes from it made it into his Wikipedia entry. 

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Liddell: OK, right, let's get down to brass tacks. New album, I listened to it, I liked it a lot, I thought it was very interesting. And I was wondering why you chose, well, you or the record company, why you chose "Run With The Boys" for the first single?

Barat: I guess that, well, I mean, presumably the record company thought it was catchiest, I guess. I don't know. We're not really doing a massive sort of single-led campaign. You know, the single and album come out on the same day, suicide for singles market thing, but it's more about the album as a whole. But, I mean, that...That song is kind of the one that refers to the bands I've been in and the lifestyle I've led for...

Liddell: That's what I figured, yeah. It's a kind of ironic comment in a way, isn't it?

Barat: Yeah, it kind of celebrates it at the same time as questioning it.

Liddell: And sort of draws a line under it?

Barat: I guess so, yeah. My personal conclusion would be that you can definitely strike a balance and, you know, embrace both. As long as you're growing and still on the journey.

Liddell: But now basically you're solo and maybe sometimes you'll do, you'll pick and choose projects to do with other people occasionally, maybe get some of the old bands back together just for a short time like you did this summer.

Barat: Yeah, that would be a nice way to go.

Liddell: In a way, I guess the new albums are a lot more mature, you know, you're sort of like you're really doing things your own way and you know there's a lot of variety in there and it's quite a sophisticated album and would you say that maybe being in bands has kind of held you back in certain ways?

Barat: It came to a point when being in a band became something of a comfort zone I think I didn't really realise it at the time but I felt kind of trapped in a prison of my own design really like obviously like something of a dwindling audience and trying to write hits, you know, that's where I never wanted it to be, I don't know how I ended up there, and so, I had to stop doing that and have a clean break, and that's how I ended up here, writing a really selfish album, you know, which helped me deal with the past, which, you know, really, objective number one, in terms of getting me to write, was that, remember, it doesn't have to sell anything, it just has to be the honest.

Liddell: With a band, there's always that pressure, you've got to...

Barat: Especially if you're signed and everything already. I had the luxury of being free from deals and I wasn't tied to anything. I just managed to get dropped by a wait to write new stuff until I was dropped by my last label.

Liddell: Yeah, so it's like with bands you've had different kinds of problems, like maybe in a way the Libertines are too successful and that causes all sorts of problems and with the Dirty Pretty Things it kind of fizzled out a bit, didn't it?

Barat: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, we kind of got a second album syndrome in a way, I think. Just the pressure of the first album and, you know, there's alleged different factors really.

Liddell: Yeah, whatever you do, something seems to go wrong.

Barat: Yeah, yeah. That does happen a lot, yeah.

Liddell: Anyway, you're on your own now, so you've got complete creative control. And you chose to write most of this on piano instead of guitar. What's going on there? Because basically people think of you as a guitarist.

Barat: Yeah, well, it's just you fall into habits, so I do, as a writer. And as soon as I pick up a guitar, my hands naturally form the same sort of shapes. But the piano is a whole different...landscape really. If you don't play piano, which I don't, apart from a sort of classical six finger guitarist, vamping. Yeah, you just find yourself going in the directions you wouldn't normally.

Liddell: So it's just another way into originality and freshness? Yeah, I think so. So the next album will be written on a saxophone, is that right?

Barat: A French horn. A Fugle horn, isn't it?

Liddell: Yeah, so you just go through the whole orchestra and come up with new ideas all the time.

Barat: Yeah, well, I was going to do a covers album on a conch.

Liddell: On a conch, yeah. I can imagine that, yeah. What does Pete think of this album? Has he actually given you any feedback?

Barat: He... I still didn't send him it, actually. But I played him a couple of the songs and he was... Yeah, he related well to them.

Liddell: What did he say about them?

Barat: Well, he liked them.

Liddell: So how close are you guys now because you obviously you go back together for the summer and I mean maybe because it's it's more limited it's easier you know in away?

Barat: Maybe. We're both very different people but the people we are with each other hasn't really changed in all these years

Liddell: So it's a bit like going back to the guitar, your hands take on certain shapes, when you meet certain people again, your personality takes on certain shapes.

Barat: Yeah, I guess you could say that.

Liddell: Right now, I heard you're married, you have a kid now, you're living in the country.

Barat: None of those are true.

Liddell: Really?

Barat: No, no, I'm not married. I'm going to have a baby in December, and then I've been in North London. I can't drive, so the country would be rubbish.

Liddell: Which part of North London?

Barat: Muswell Hill.

Liddell: That's near my brother. About the album, can you tell me a little bit about how the songs got written? What did you start from? What was the starting line for this album?

Barat: I think this is the first album I've done that's kind of introspective, rather than escapist, I guess, the way it was written. Yeah, I realised I had a lot of things to work with. That's how it's all come about so quickly. It was all written and recorded this year. But, yeah, just doing the personal things. We were taking out the guitars and things, and looking at the more... Taking out, stepping away from big loud guitars, it stops you hiding behind that.

Liddell: So hiding behind guitars, what would you be hiding from? The audience or life itself?

Barat: Yeah, both of those really. I mean, it wasn't always like that, but it kind of ended up like that. It just felt like a loud guitar was expected, leather jackets and whiskey and cigarette.

Liddell: You said guitar rock band is a bit of an immature thing, it's a way of prolonging adolescence.

Barat: It did feel a bit like that for me, I wouldn't say that was true in everybody's case. I was definitely stuck in a bit of a rut, which is why I had to end that kind of way of life, I had to run with the boys.

Liddell: Which song did you do first, write first? Well I started writing "So Long My Lover" and I wrote a basic version of that last year, basically because I was playing a gig in Scotland and I had to have something new, otherwise I might be a lambasted. That was a great gig. But yeah, so I had to have something new to play, so I pretty much started that on the bus, but then I put it away. And then that came out. And another song called... What's it called? "Run with the Boys." I started those two last year. But then I didn't do anything until April this year. And then I wrote everything.

Liddell: Yeah, "So Long My Lover" is quite, it's a little bit downbeat, isn't it? And then "Run With The Boys" is very upbeat. Yeah. So you're sort of experimenting with shade and light there in different directions.

Barat: Well, I guess so. I wanted it to be an album rather than two singles and a bunch of fillers. It does take on the same conceptual shape about frivolity, finding love, enduring love, you know, loss and then finding love again. I mean there is a sort of loose narrative there. And yeah, seven was... it's just like a sort of a pivotal ballad really ["So Long My Lover"]. I'm always interested in what track number seven is on an album. I thought that was a good number seven.

Liddell: Is that your lucky number there?

Barat: Not really, I've always noticed it in my favourite albums, that always seems to be the number of the track which is kind of stand out, pivotal.

Liddell: Yeah, they don't want to put it too early otherwise people might miss it. So you regard that as a standout track on this album?

Barat: For me it's certainly, in terms of where it was written from. That was the part which allows me to move on and closure and...

Liddell: Yeah, well it sounds a little...I mean obviously the title, "So Long My Lover," is a goodbye song to somebody. And is that literally what it is?

Barat: Yeah, yeah. There have been quite a few people involved in it.

Liddell: But that can refer to a number of people.

Barat: That's the idea. It's kind of universal. I don't want to write names and things in there.

Liddell: No, no, of course not.

Barat: It's slightly unfair to people. Also, it doesn't really make for good songs.

Liddell: Can I just ask you a little bit about what you're doing in Japan this time? I mean, you've got a tour in November, right?

Barat: Yeah, well, I mean... We might have one date here in November, and that's a bit still on the table.

Liddell: One possible date.

Barat: Yeah, I think on the 28th, I think it's something to do with supporting the Manic Street Preachers.

Liddell: Oh yeah, they're coming over, yeah.

Barat: Yeah, so if you do it, it'll be that. If I do it, it's not me anymore.

Liddell:  And this time, you're just here for a couple of days.

Barat: Yeah, this year, just doing press.

Liddell: Yeah. I heard you were going to do one short live set somewhere.

Barat: I'm sort of busking later for some fans at Tower Records.

Liddell: Tower Records.

Barat: It's not like a production gig. But yeah, I'm going to belt out a few tunes later on the acoustic. It's been four years.

Liddell: Is that today?

Barat: Yeah. Tonight. Yeah, about seven.

Liddell: Ah, I see.

Barat: It's been a while since. It's been four years since I played there.

Liddell: Tower Records, that would be the one in Shibuya then? Yeah. Okay. So let's just go to some of the other songs. "Ode to a Girl." I quite like that one. That's the one that stuck first of all when I listened to the album. Can you tell me a bit about that? How did that get started and what's it about?

Barat: That's the... That the kind of sorry excuse me... Fatigue. How long does it take to get over jet lag generally?

Liddell: Oh, jet lag? Usually, if you're going to Britain, it's easier.

Barat: Oh, is it?

Liddell: Because the day just stretches. But If you're coming to Japan, then you can miss a day and it doesn't add up. The hours don't add up anymore so...

Barat: If I'm on day three, I'm going back tomorrow.

Liddell: Yeah. If you just come here for a short trip, if you just stay on British time, then when you go back, you'll be fine.

Barat: A lot of people have said that they don't see it as optimistic, but it really is.

Liddell: It's got both, hasn't it?

Barat: Yeah, it shows the recovery. If you can sing an ode to a girl, and obviously it's a new girl, then you're moving on. And it kind of explains the past, and excuses it, and it's also the baby in mind.

Liddell: So it's sort of covering similar territory to "So Long My Lover," but maybe a little bit further on?

Barat: No, no, I mean, it's the whole, you know, "So Long My Lover" is like goodbye that way, and "Ode to a Girl" is hello that way.

Liddell: Yeah, so it's sort of like, it's the same narrative in a way.

Barat: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, but I mean, yeah, there's a bit more of the story in between this, but yeah. It's, what was I going to say? Yeah, so we started round Andrew Wyatt... Sorry for a little... It's really great on the video. He had just a musical phrase and we built it up there and I wrote the words. It just fell into place.

Liddell: Who's been working with you on this album? Is it self-produced?

Barat: No, that's a long way off before I can do that kind of thing. There's Leo Abrahams who's the producer. He's worked with Brett Anderson before. He used to be the guitarist for Ed Harcourt.

Liddell: What about the musicians?

Barat: A lot of it's just in-house. Seriously, I just suddenly got an attack. I think it comes in waves. All the strings were provided by my missus and her sisters.

Liddell: What sort of musical background do they have?

Barat: They're all classical, they used to have a band called Dirty Pretty Strings, ironically coincidental, but they're in a band called the Langley Sisters actually, which is worth looking at. Yeah, but they do strings professionally.

Liddell: There's all these kind of strange things in the mix. There's a bit of like, sounds like a gypsy tango sometimes, a bit of a polka, and there's all these little interesting musical ingredients.

Barat: I do love all those rhythms, I always have done.

Liddell: I was just wondering if, well, originally you're of European extraction, aren't you? Your roots go back and you don't know.

Barat: I find that a different thing every year.

Liddell: The name Barat, where does that hail from?

Barat: Well, I think it's predominantly French, but I couldn't tell you how far back.

Liddell: But there's no sort of, there's nothing feeding in from your roots into the music.

Barat: Sorry, that's going to be boring answers.

Liddell: No, no, I just want to nail these things down, yes or no, basically. Just see if there's anything there, you know. Probing's our job.

Barat: Yeah, I do have some foreign roots. I guess just by looking in the mirror, generally. But I'm not quite entirely sure where.

Liddell [to promoter staff]:  Five more minutes. Oh, okay, yes, thank you.

Barat: It's my fault for waffling about the countryside and things, sorry.

Liddell: That's fine, I don't have a problem here. Okay, also, what other music are you interested in at the moment? What sort of things are influencing you? What are you listening to?

Barat: Well, just before I started making this record, I was kind of inspired, like, away from, I've always said the classics, like 60s, 70s, but since then I've been listening to Bonnie Prince Billy, "I See a Darkness," Tom Waits "Rain Dogs," Lenny Cohen, "Greatest Hits," embarrassingly enough, but still they're great, and a tiny bit of Jeff Buckley actually, not too much, but a couple of play throughs, if I'm in the right mood that can be quite poignant.

Liddell: Well, it's all sort of like grist for the singer-songwriter Mill, isn't it?

Barat: Yeah, I'd say so, yeah.

Liddell: It seems like you're really going to define yourself as a solo artist.

Barat: Well, I mean, at the moment, yeah, that's right.

Liddell: I mean, going  by your intake and everything.

Barat: Yeah, yeah. My intake has changed over the last few years.

Liddell: But the thing that people always latch onto is that you were in the Libertines. Did that ever become like an albatross around your neck?

Barat: Not really. I really choose to see it as a progressive thing. It's kind of gone full circle since we did the gigs at Reading and Leeds. Obviously, Libertines aren't dead, so it's not like I'm suffering under the weight of it all, which I was for a while, I thought. But yeah, I feel much better and lighter now we've done that, and now we've got the option for the future, which is obviously yet unwritten.

Liddell: So you're talking about writing together again?

Barat: Maybe next year. Everyone's expressed a wish to do.

Liddell: Isn't that a problem for you as trying to carve out a solo career? Because if you keep dipping in and out of the Libertines again, that's where the focus is going to be. And your solo career is going to get left in the shade a little bit, you know what I mean?

Barat: I don't know if that's strictly true, to be honest.

Liddell: Do you think they have a symbiotic relationship, the Libertine thing helps your solo career and vice versa?

Barat: Possibly, I don't know, it's confusing for people. Obviously, the last thing I'll do is compete with myself.

Liddell: Well, it's not confusing because it's just the way the media operates and the way publicity operates and the way record business operates. It always follows the publicity, the story, the image.

Barat: I've not really thought it through that far. I just want to do what feels right at the time, really. And if it transpires that I can't feed myself or my unborn child, then my maybe I will have to start playing the game a bit more. Right now I just want to play this record, write this record, play this record, tour this record, and then see where the scene stands after that, I might want to do another one.

Liddell: So have you been playing these songs anywhere already?

Barat: A couple of times.

Liddell: Yeah, back in the UK?

Barat: Yeah.

Liddell: Just some dates?

Barat: Yeah, just like, just that tiny little stage, really. But, yeah, it seems to be a good reaction. Actually, Glastonbury was good, actually.

Liddell: So, erm...Which songs... Does it come over exactly as you hear it on the record?

Barat: Well that's what I'm trying to do at the moment. It's quite difficult because I'm kind of limited, especially funds-wise as well. I can only afford a five piece at the moment, so I can't get all the strings and bells and dancing girls. But yeah, on a six piece. But yeah, I'm just playing some old songs, some new songs, and yeah, just keeping it.

Liddell: I'll ask my final question because they'll be in the door any minute. Why do you think Libertines were such a big success and why do you think Dirty Pretty Things were not a big success?

Barat: I'm guessing, my most objective answer would be I think people were attracted to the fact that Libertines was every man's band really and everyone was part of the story, there was no real privacy, and it was quite eventful, but also the audience felt like they were part of the band, which I think that was a great thing. I think Dirty Pretty Things took that on, but without the story. So I guess people like the Libertines story. So if you give them the music without the story, then the interest is going to dwindle. That's today's answer to that question.

Liddell: So with that story, that sounds a bit like without Pete Doherty, though. Because he, in a real sense, as far as the media is concerned, he's a bit of a story, isn't he? He's always getting into trouble, and there's always something going on.

Barat: Yeah, but then you could argue, then, why didn't Pete's Baby Shambles project, you know, carry on with the same momentum that the Libertines had. If people lost the story, then that would make sense with it.

Liddell: Yeah, so Baby Shambles, all of the same trajectories, as the Dirty Pretty Things.

Barat: Yeah, I think the story would be, that's what I'm talking about, when people felt involved with the band, probably our relationship.

Liddell: So the borderless attitude to the fans, so just sort of being up close with the fans, that just sort of spread itself.

Barat: It has been maintained, but I mean the fans grew with the band, you know, I mean, quite a tiny band, but very significant to quite a few, and then that has kind of snowballed since, well, shit went down, and it stopped being that, and it stopped functioning as a band. And then that's why it was so good at Reading and Leeds, to come back and play for all these people who were never aware of it and it still means much, and I'm not disappointed. That was quite a big thing. But yeah, that's what the story is.

Liddell: So to sum up you'd say the reason is because it was a story and the story was the relationship with the fans. It was fresh, it was real, it was immediate and later on that became difficult or impossible.

Barat: Well, obviously we had our internal struggles in the band. But then, yeah, there's breaking up and then we're getting back together. There's a [garbled] in a way. I don't know. I try not to think about it too much. Every time I do my opinion changes.

Liddell: Yeah, yeah, it's just timing and luck and chance, all these elements which really can't be theorised about too much really come into play. Yeah, you've just got to do what you're doing. If you're lucky, you're lucky. If you aren't, you aren't.

Barat: Basically, yeah. As long as what you mean comes from a place of love, as Russell Brand says you'll be bulletproof.

Liddell: Wise words to end the interview on. Okay, we'll finish there then. 

Barat: Cool, I hope you've got something to work with.

Liddell: Plenty to work with. Don't worry. I've had much worse?

Barat: Thanks. Nice to meet you.