In 2010, Carl Barat of Libertines fame came to Tokyo to promote his eponymous solo album, which was rather good. I interviewed him at the offices of the company promoting him in Japan.
Even though he was extremely jet-lagged and a bit dishevelled, he allowed me to video the interview. Here is the interview itself and the tape-script. The article that this produced can be read here or here, while a couple of quotes from it made it into his Wikipedia entry.
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Liddell: OK, right, let's get down to brass tacks. New album, I listened to it, I liked it a lot, I thought it was very interesting. And I was wondering why you chose, well, you or the record company, why you chose "Run With The Boys" for the first single?
Barat: I guess that, well, I mean, presumably the record company thought it was catchiest, I guess. I don't know. We're not really doing a massive sort of single-led campaign. You know, the single and album come out on the same day, suicide for singles market thing, but it's more about the album as a whole. But, I mean, that...That song is kind of the one that refers to the bands I've been in and the lifestyle I've led for...
Liddell: That's what I figured, yeah. It's a kind of ironic comment in a way, isn't it?
Barat: Yeah, it kind of celebrates it at the same time as questioning it.
Liddell: And sort of draws a line under it?
Barat: I guess so, yeah. My personal conclusion would be that you can definitely strike a balance and, you know, embrace both. As long as you're growing and still on the journey.
Liddell: But now basically you're solo and maybe sometimes you'll do, you'll pick and choose projects to do with other people occasionally, maybe get some of the old bands back together just for a short time like you did this summer.
Barat: Yeah, that would be a nice way to go.
Liddell: In a way, I guess the new albums are a lot more mature, you know, you're sort of like you're really doing things your own way and you know there's a lot of variety in there and it's quite a sophisticated album and would you say that maybe being in bands has kind of held you back in certain ways?
Barat: It came to a point when being in a band became something of a comfort zone I think I didn't really realise it at the time but I felt kind of trapped in a prison of my own design really like obviously like something of a dwindling audience and trying to write hits, you know, that's where I never wanted it to be, I don't know how I ended up there, and so, I had to stop doing that and have a clean break, and that's how I ended up here, writing a really selfish album, you know, which helped me deal with the past, which, you know, really, objective number one, in terms of getting me to write, was that, remember, it doesn't have to sell anything, it just has to be the honest.
Liddell: With a band, there's always that pressure, you've got to...
Barat: Especially if you're signed and everything already. I had the luxury of being free from deals and I wasn't tied to anything. I just managed to get dropped by a wait to write new stuff until I was dropped by my last label.
Liddell: Yeah, so it's like with bands you've had different kinds of problems, like maybe in a way the Libertines are too successful and that causes all sorts of problems and with the Dirty Pretty Things it kind of fizzled out a bit, didn't it?
Barat: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, we kind of got a second album syndrome in a way, I think. Just the pressure of the first album and, you know, there's alleged different factors really.
Liddell: Yeah, whatever you do, something seems to go wrong.
Barat: Yeah, yeah. That does happen a lot, yeah.
Liddell: Anyway, you're on your own now, so you've got complete creative control. And you chose to write most of this on piano instead of guitar. What's going on there? Because basically people think of you as a guitarist.
Barat: Yeah, well, it's just you fall into habits, so I do, as a writer. And as soon as I pick up a guitar, my hands naturally form the same sort of shapes. But the piano is a whole different...landscape really. If you don't play piano, which I don't, apart from a sort of classical six finger guitarist, vamping. Yeah, you just find yourself going in the directions you wouldn't normally.
Liddell: So it's just another way into originality and freshness? Yeah, I think so. So the next album will be written on a saxophone, is that right?
Barat: A French horn. A Fugle horn, isn't it?
Liddell: Yeah, so you just go through the whole orchestra and come up with new ideas all the time.
Barat: Yeah, well, I was going to do a covers album on a conch.
Liddell: On a conch, yeah. I can imagine that, yeah. What does Pete think of this album? Has he actually given you any feedback?
Barat: He... I still didn't send him it, actually. But I played him a couple of the songs and he was... Yeah, he related well to them.
Liddell: What did he say about them?
Barat: Well, he liked them.
Liddell: So how close are you guys now because you obviously you go back together for the summer and I mean maybe because it's it's more limited it's easier you know in away?
Barat: Maybe. We're both very different people but the people we are with each other hasn't really changed in all these years
Liddell: So it's a bit like going back to the guitar, your hands take on certain shapes, when you meet certain people again, your personality takes on certain shapes.
Barat: Yeah, I guess you could say that.
Liddell: Right now, I heard you're married, you have a kid now, you're living in the country.
Barat: None of those are true.
Liddell: Really?
Barat: No, no, I'm not married. I'm going to have a baby in December, and then I've been in North London. I can't drive, so the country would be rubbish.
Liddell: Which part of North London?
Barat: Muswell Hill.
Liddell: That's near my brother. About the album, can you tell me a little bit about how the songs got written? What did you start from? What was the starting line for this album?
Barat: I think this is the first album I've done that's kind of introspective, rather than escapist, I guess, the way it was written. Yeah, I realised I had a lot of things to work with. That's how it's all come about so quickly. It was all written and recorded this year. But, yeah, just doing the personal things. We were taking out the guitars and things, and looking at the more... Taking out, stepping away from big loud guitars, it stops you hiding behind that.
Liddell: So hiding behind guitars, what would you be hiding from? The audience or life itself?
Barat: Yeah, both of those really. I mean, it wasn't always like that, but it kind of ended up like that. It just felt like a loud guitar was expected, leather jackets and whiskey and cigarette.
Liddell: You said guitar rock band is a bit of an immature thing, it's a way of prolonging adolescence.
Barat: It did feel a bit like that for me, I wouldn't say that was true in everybody's case. I was definitely stuck in a bit of a rut, which is why I had to end that kind of way of life, I had to run with the boys.
Liddell: Which song did you do first, write first? Well I started writing "So Long My Lover" and I wrote a basic version of that last year, basically because I was playing a gig in Scotland and I had to have something new, otherwise I might be a lambasted. That was a great gig. But yeah, so I had to have something new to play, so I pretty much started that on the bus, but then I put it away. And then that came out. And another song called... What's it called? "Run with the Boys." I started those two last year. But then I didn't do anything until April this year. And then I wrote everything.
Liddell: Yeah, "So Long My Lover" is quite, it's a little bit downbeat, isn't it? And then "Run With The Boys" is very upbeat. Yeah. So you're sort of experimenting with shade and light there in different directions.
Barat: Well, I guess so. I wanted it to be an album rather than two singles and a bunch of fillers. It does take on the same conceptual shape about frivolity, finding love, enduring love, you know, loss and then finding love again. I mean there is a sort of loose narrative there. And yeah, seven was... it's just like a sort of a pivotal ballad really [
Back in 2008 I had been hoping to interview the artist Tadanori Yokoo face-to-face with the help of an interpreter, but that didn't work out, so, instead I submitted questions in Japanese by email. Unfortunately, Mr. Yokoo's answers reached me too late to be translated into English and used in my article. Here is the interview in both English and Japanese!
Liddell: Many of your recent works (depicting boys gazing at something) seem to carry themes of innocence and a sense of adventure. Why are these themes important to you now? Does it have anything to do with your age?
Yokoo: The boys in my paintings are inspired by those in the adventure and detective novels I read in my teens. The various experiences of my teenage years, which shaped my personality, also greatly influenced them. Most of the inspiration for my creative work stems from the experiences, thoughts, and memories of my teenage years. This has only grown stronger as I’ve aged. My feelings toward my teenage years are akin to a longing for my hometown. The fears, anxieties, hopes, dreams, and other ambiguous elements (pre-modern, indigenous things) I experienced in my teens have settled into my unconscious, but through the act of creation, I bring them out one by one. This process has been my way of overcoming modernity itself. That’s why I return to it again and again.
Liddell: What does adventure mean to you? From works like "Reminiscence of Love," I feel that adventure is equated with losing innocence or sexual knowledge.
Reminiscence of Love
Yokoo: Adventure is the act of encountering another world through the body. It’s a way to recognize another reality separate from this one—an expansion of reality, and also an expansion of one’s own domain. The existence of “I” is full of mysteries. It’s the question of “Who am I?” posed to myself. This needs to be viewed not only from the perspective of life but also from the perspective of death. Adventure is always accompanied by danger. By stepping into dangerous places, rather than staying in safe ones, we encounter the true “self” (which you might call the soul). You say that adventure leads to the loss of innocence or sexual knowledge, but I see it the other way around. Within adventure lies the infantilism of children. This boyish (or infantile) quality is both a taboo and, at the same time, possesses cruelty. This infantilism is the core of an artist’s creative drive. I feel a liberated or suppressed sexual emotion within the innocence of boys.
Liddell: I can’t help but think of Freud when looking at your paintings—for example, the combination of water, danger, and sexual desire. The fight between Tarzan and the crocodile [in one of your works] seems to express an attempt to suppress sexual desire. To what extent is such a Freudian interpretation valid?
Yokoo: The fight between Tarzan and the crocodile signifies liberation rather than suppression of sexual desire. Or perhaps it’s a battle with the ego within oneself. The ego may liberate a person and grant freedom, but I want to unleash that ego even further, ultimately dissolving it. For me, creation may start with the ego, but it also ends with the ego.
Liddell: Why do you often repeatedly reference the same material? For example, “yodare" (drool) appears later in works like "Hong Kong 1997" or "Elsa’s Scream." Mishima Yukio is also frequently referenced. What is the purpose of this?
Yokoo: My repetition represents time. I used to think time was static. But in modern times, time began to flow. My repetition is a theory of time: yesterday’s time repeats in today, and it repeats again in tomorrow.
Liddell: Why did you choose to parody Rousseau in this exhibition?
Yokoo: For me, Rousseau represents the unconscious. However, people generally see his works as naïve, dreamlike, or joyful. I don’t see them that way at all. I wanted to draw out the anger, fear, cruelty, anxiety, and laughter hidden deep within the unconscious—things Rousseau didn’t depict but which are concealed in his work. I wanted to drag out the mystery lurking behind his seemingly naïve, dreamlike paintings. By doing so, I aimed to critique Rousseau’s art. It’s an attempt at a critique of painting through painting.
Back in 2011, a few months after the massive Earthquake that devastated much of Japan, I ran into Hiroshi Kawano, the President of Sony Computer Entertainment Japan at Tokyo Game Show and managed to buttonhole him with a few questions.
Liddell: Tokyo Game Show seems very busy today. It’s almost as if the earthquake had no effect. How did the earthquake impact your company’s development and launch schedule?
Kawano: It affected us because a lot of the companies supplying our components are located in the area that was hit by the earthquake. It also affected us psychologically because in the springtime, in March or April, we thought can we advertise? Can we promote these types of game? We had to stop some titles and new software. Launch dates were postponed. But from a lot of aspects, we also thought we really have to push on with our work, because it’s really important to help the Japanese economy recover from the disaster. The Tohoku region suffered a lot of damage, so we thought maybe our sales there would be down. But we heard a lot of voices from people in trouble, and they really wanted our products, so saw great sales in that area as well.
Liddell: With so much information on new games now on-line, what is the point of having a big games expo like Tokyo Game Show?
Kawano: It’s so that fans and consumers can have hands-on experience of games that have not been released yet. All these products will be launched in December, so they’re not available yet. These titles are only available here and a lot of fans really look forward to coming here and doing this. Tokyo Game Show has a long history and all game fans are very much waiting for this kind of festival.
Liddell: The fans are very excited, so what kind of feedback having you been getting, especially regarding the new PlayStation Vita handheld game console?
Kawano: We get a lot of feedback through our community site after the show, but already we have heard that the fans are really excited to have a lot of gaming choices. We are launching our new platform PlayStaion Vita with 26 new titles. In the past when new platforms were launched only two or three titles were available, but here, this year, this coming December, there will be 26 titles. It’s a more integrated approach, and also satisfying a lot of different needs.
Liddell: Are the 26 new games designed specifically for the Vita and to make use of its new features?
Kawano: Mostly yes. For example the back touch panel, the front touch panel, and the gyro sensor – those are the unique features that only Vita has, so a lot of game publishers have utilized these type of new feature to update existing games and to make new games. About half the titles are entirely new, but in the case of existing games they have created totally different experiences by utilizing the new features, so from our point of view it’s a totally different game. Anyway, the customer will decide whether this is exciting or not, and this is something they are checking now.
Liddell: It sounds like the development of the console hardware is driving the development of the gaming software. Kawano: I think it works both ways. Sometimes it is technology driven, sometimes it is contents driven. We maybe wouldn’t have developed some of the new technology but we had strong demand for it from the contents side.
Liddell: Some game makers have decided that developing 3-D is the way forward. How about Sony?
Kawano: We are not Nintendo! But if you check our picture quality, you feel some three-dimensional effect because of the depth and the very beautiful and detailed pictures. 3-D is sometimes artificial. From the customer’s point of view it is very difficult because if they move, 3-D doesn’t work. We don’t call our picture 3-D but it is amazing.
Liddell: There are three major game shows in the world. Unlike E3 in North America and Gamescom in Europe, Tokyo Game Show seems less truly international. How much is TGS a game show for all of Asia and how much is it essentially a game show just for Japan?
Kawano: As you see here most of the visitors are Japanese and this show is for Japan. For example, if we had this type of exhibition in Hong Kong, do you think a lot of Japanese consumers would go to Hong Kong? No, I don’t think so. Even though we have this here in Tokyo, we also get a lot of requests from people who live outside Tokyo, in Northern or Southern Japan, saying that they cannot come and asking us to come to them. So, after TGS, we are going to have a caravan show to bring the Vita to five different cities.
In late 2009, I conducted a telephone interview with Mikael Akerfeldt, the leader of OPETH. He was in Italy and I was in Saitama. The entire interview lasted about twenty-five minutes, during which we talked about the Watershed album, previous trips to Japan (including Osaka's notorious Rock Rock Bar), being surrounded by musical autistes, the lack of improvisation, being 'unrock' to rock, the appeal of Nick Drake, the Swedish crab-bucket mentality of Jantelagen, and how false vocal cords make you sound like Satan.
Akerfeldt: Yes.
Liddell: Hello.
Akerfeldt: Hello.
Liddell: Is that Mikael Akerfeldt?
Akerfeldt: Yes.
Liddell: Hello. This is Colin Liddell.
Akerfeldt: OK.
Liddell: I’m phoning from Japan.
Akerfeldt: Yes.
Liddell: From the International Herald Tribune Asahi Shimbun.
Akerfeldt: I know, but weren’t you supposed to call 12:30?
Liddell: Well, yeh, but there was a problem, eh, with giving me your number. I didn’t get your number until about an hour ago then since then I’ve been phoning a few times and there’s been no answer, so there’s been a bit of a mix up somewhere.
Akerfeldt: Yeh.
Liddell: Is it OK to speak now?
Akerfeldt: How long is it going to take, d’you think?
Liddell: Probably about fifteen twenty minutes.
Akerfeldt: OK, that’s cool. Hold on a second. Thank you.
[pause]
Akerfeldt: OK, I’m sorry. I was sleeping. We had a rough night.
Liddell: I see, so, eh, right now are you going around touring?
Akerfeldt: Yeh, we’re out on a tour called "Progressive Nation" with Dream Theater.
Liddell: Yeh.
Akerfeldt: Big Elf and a band called Unexpect, which is basically an initiative from Mike Portnoy, the drummer from Dream Theater put this together. So we’re just basically winding down. We only have another – let’s see – three shows before we’re finished.
Liddell: Right, where are you at the moment?
Akerfeldt: Right now we’re in Bologna in Italy.
Liddell: Aha, so… where did you just play?
Akerfeldt: Ah, we played Rome last night.
Liddell: So, how was that? Did anything interesting happen?
Akerfeldt: Ah, we’ve been to Italy many times and it’s always been pretty good for us here, and especially Rome, eh, which for some reason we’ve neglected – many times we come to Italy we haven’t had shows there for some reason, but it’s always great. And yesterday’s show, I think, was one of the best of the tour for me personally.
Liddell: So, what went right?
Akerfeldt: Ah, it’s just y’know I think it’s more in your head to be honest, y’know, like the way you play. We’re so picky these days that if there’s one mistake that I hear the show is more or less ruined, y’know what I mean?
Liddell: Yeh.
Akerfeldt: Which is horrible, but it’s also, yeh, the interaction with the crowd when everything just clicks and you feel like. y’know. it’s like a... I don’t know... some, y’know, magic. It’s always good and it’s always good fun to play the shows but sometimes it’s not as fun as other times, y’know.
Liddell: The article I’m doing about you is to prepare for your coming to Japan.
Akerfeldt: Yeh.
Liddell: And I’m wondering, em, how often you’ve been to Japan and what are your impressions so far?
Akerfeldt: We haven’t been that many times. We’ve only been twice. We played the Loud Park festival in 2006 and went to 3 or 4 shows last year and it was amazing, y’know. I’ve been hearing so much about playing in Japan and just being there as a tourist y’know I've always been wanting to go there myself and when we finally made it over it was fantastic, y’know. So well arranged, everything so professional and they take really good care of you once you’re there y’know, and the fans are really nice and respectful, the food is awesome, and y’know, it's y’know, I think Tokyo and Osaka are y’know, it felt a bit like it’s on a different planet if y’know what I mean. It’s so different from Stockholm but I loved it, y’know, I loved it.
Liddell: Yeh, any problems coming to Japan cos I mean, eh, a lot of the... You've got tattoos and a lot of the band members have got tattoos and in certain establishments people with tattoos can scare or freak people out?
Akerfeldt: Ah we didn’t see anything of that, y’know, I’m sure, y’know, like most metal and rock bands today get tattoos, I think. I don’t think that represents that much of a problem and we certainly didn’t hear anything about that. They took great care of us to be honest and obviously some nights we got really drunk and obnoxious but and it was, y’know, they didn’t seem to be that irritated with us, y’know.
Liddell: Do you remember what sort of places you were going to for drinking?
Akerfeldt: Well, we went to a couple of different restaurants and also in, ah, we went to – what’s it called? – the Rock Rock, the Rock Rock Bar in, ah, is it Osaka, Nagoya? I can’t remember, but I was just there I had a few beers, y’know, and it’s just one of those places that apparently you’re supposed to go to, but otherwise we sat in the cafe in the hotel and had a couple of beers.
Liddell: Right. Now you you’ve obviously got quite a long career and, y’know, in that time there’s been quite a lot of line up changes and is this sort of something that, eh, gets associated with, eh a lot of hard rock or heavy metal bands – these continuous line up changes – em, so could you maybe tell me a little bit about that? What’s been going on with all the line up changes and, eh, how about the line up now? Ha, have you finally settled on a, y’know, very solid line up?
Akerfeldt: Well, I like to think we have, y’know, but since we’ve had many line up changes I don’t take anything for granted, but as for the five guys who are in the band now, we’re, y’know, get along great, we play great. It sounds better than ever. And it just no denying, y’know, it’s just so much better sounding when we play live to be honest. And in the past, y’know, I think most of the line-up changes have, y’know, been happening because people change, y’know. People don’t want to do this anymore because they get new ideas. They, y’know, it’s a risky type of business, I mean, y’know, for many years we didn’t make a penny, which obviously presents a problem if you’ve got bills to pay and rent and shit like that and food of course, y’know. Um, so, I think some of the group members who have been in the band simply didn’t have it in them to be musicians on this level...
Liddell: Yeh, um, I was looking at the DVD that’s, eh, connected to the Watershed LP, and I got the impression that you, you’re a relatively kind of normal creative guy and you’ve surrounded yourself with these very kind of intensely focused musicians now, like, you’ve got a very good drummer, the keyboardist is very good at what he does – everybody’s sort of very technically proficient and very, very focused and almost autisticly so, and you’re in the middle of all that.
Akerfeldt: Yeh, I know but that’s, y’know, that’s… It’s basically what I’ve been looking for. I felt that me, both as a player and a songwriter, have developed during the years and some of the guys have been in the band but they didn’t develop, if you know what I mean. They didn’t push themselves to the next level.
Liddell: You mean they didn’t develop as musicians or creatively?
Akerfeldt: Both. Well, mostly as musicians, y’know, because I want all the guys in the band – even though I write most of the songs, y’know, almost everything – I want the guys to take their positions, to take charge of their positions and do it, y’know, as if, y’know, it’s a position, if you know what I mean. I don’t interfere, y’know, It’s what they know much better than me. That’s always what I’ve been looking for. I just want to present the songs and obviously some of the songs are quite advanced to play I guess but, y’know, em, I think I’ve always wanted to surround myself with great musicians, but people that are better than me if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeh, in terms of technical proficiency.
Akerfeldt: Yeh, so I can just relax and concentrate on the thing, y’know, more or less. And it just feels so safe playing with a drummer like Axe and with [Martin] Méndez, and Fredrik [Åkesson] and Per [Wiberg]. It’s just never... I can always kind of just lean back and enjoy the ride if you know what I mean, when we play live; when in the past, there’s always been ups and downs. You’re not sure where the one is and, y’know, everything’s a bit more chaotic, y’know, and now it’s just, y’know, everybody’s in charge of their own position in the band I think.
Liddell: Yeh. This is, this is something that a lot of people who don’t really know about heavy metal are actually quite surprised at that, y’know, you have to be very, very precise about what you’re doing and there’s very little room for mistakes or... And there’s almost... Like when you’re performing there’s very... there’s almost no improvisation, yeh?
Akerfeldt: No, we don’t improvise much, and if we are improvising, it's specific that we have made like "OK this minute or two in this song, we improvise a little bit, y’know, in the key of whatever." But, generally, we try to play the songs as close to the album versions, if you know what I mean, and we’ve become very, very picky, as I’ve said. We record all the performances and listen back to them after the show and the difference between what we think is a good show and a bad show is so small that you can barely hear it, you know what I mean?
Liddell: Yeh. Yeh...
Akerfeldt: Which is strange, I guess.
Liddell: Yeh, maybe, you notice it a lot more than the audiences, I guess.
Akerfeldt: Yeh, we all have like – especially on this tour – we all have some like the in-ear monitors if you know what that is. Basically we have a little, like a thing in your ear, and that’s your monitor. That’s what you hear and everything’s so close and dry, and if somebody plays a bum note it really, y’know, shines through if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeh.
Akerfeldt: Eh, right now we’re extremely picky. It’s just a... if you want to play a more or less flawless show.
Liddell: Yeh, but isn’t that kind of... doesn’t that work against the basic ethos of rock, which is supposed to be this kind of rebellious, eh, wild experience for a lot of people, and you’re completely the opposite of that because you’re so focused, so precise – mistakes are just not allowed, y’know what I mean? It’s just a... There’s a paradox there, isn’t there?
Akerfeldt: There is, and we’re completely ‘unrock’ in that sense, but it’s not like mistakes are not allowed. It’s just that they really, y’know, affect you in a negative way when you hear them so clearly.
Liddell: Mmh…
Akerfeldt: If you know what I mean. And it affects your self-confidence, like if I sing a bum note, and ‘oh my god, the next vocal line I’ll have to concentrate more’ and you become like more nervous and less relaxed if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeh. So it affects the whole feeling that you generate and emit?
Akerfeldt: I think if you were to put an ear monitor on a band like – I don’t know – to make an extreme example like the Sex Pistols. They would go fucking hell, we have to shape up, y’know.
Liddell: Yaha! So it’s a lack of awareness?
Akerfeldt: Yeh, I think it is because we thought we were good before and we were just talking about this the other night, eh, me and my bass player [Méndez]. We’re like why don’t we ever like – so rarely these days – why don’t we ever go offstage and like... The band would absolutely kill us. And I said, "Well it’s because every night is killer and in the past we were so shit in comparison to what we are now." But if we made a halfway decent gig, it sounds so awful if you know what I mean, but now the level of our performance is so high that it’s… I don’t know... It’s been evened out into… I don’t know, something that doesn’t, y’know, you never feel like you did really perfect a perfect show.
Liddell: Yes, this… So, you’ll never be perfect?
Akerfeldt: Yeh.
Liddell: Yeh, now I noticed that, eh, one of the songs on Watershed, the song "Burden," eh, I think near the end you kinda like detune the guitars, and so you’re kinda like purposely introducing a kinda element of bad playing in a sense, aren’t you?
Akerfeldt: Yeh, but that was like just a little production feature, a fun idea I had, y'know, and we're not like, even though I’m telling you that we’re perfectionists on stage – and that’s probably the case – but that’s not something we want to. We really kinda lose people. I’m not like... I don’t yell at anyone if they play bad or anything, and I still think, y’know, we still have it in us, y’know. It’s not like we are a slick band in that sense. Y’know, I still love the ugly when it comes to music, and the chaotic, I still love it, if you know what I mean, but it has its place. I don’t want it like going on all the time. I want to mix it up, if you know what I mean, and that’s just an example of that, that we have this beautiful slick sentimental ballad and basically I just felt like we should destroy it a little bit by doing that detuning of the guitar at the end.
Liddell: Yeh, so it’s sort of controlled chaos?
Akerfeldt: Yeh, Yeh exactly.
Liddell: Yes, cos this is, ah, something I get a sense of from your music is, y’know... You do have.. The music has a lot of amplitude, y’know. You do have very quiet acoustic and melodic bits, and you have this, the kinda growly, singing and the kind of, y'know, really heavy thrash style juxtaposed with each other, and that kind of creates a feeling of chaos in the audience, but from your side it’s very controlled isn’t it?
Akerfeldt: It is, y’know, and that’s basically I think for, for a person who’s never heard us before, never heard… I don’t know if I can really mention any bands… Like if you see us for the first time – you never heard the band, I’m sure it could be a pretty odd experience, y’know, and you’re like, ‘What the fuck is this? What’s going on?’ But that’s just the result of our influences and we’re… We started out being a metal band and during the years we just picked up all these different influences from other styles of music, and today basically the metal that we write is generated by inspiration that we got from non-metal music.
Liddell: So, who’s been a big influence on you in sort of changing your course in that way?
Akerfeldt: Well personally I… Obviously all those metal bands that I grew up with got me to play the guitar and all that stuff but when I write I rarely listen to metal. It’s mostly… I listen to…um, um, I’m really much into psychedelic music like Sixties.
Liddell: So, so, what’re you listening to recently, or the last few days?
Akerfeldt: Well the last few days, well, I don’t know, I’ve been listening to all sorts of things like, like, now, what’s playing before I fell asleep was a girl called Sheila McDonald, from… I think she was Irish, like a singer-songwriter from Ireland.
Liddell: Or Scottish, yeh.
Akerfeldt: Yeh, might be Scottish. I listen a lot to Miles. I listen a lot to the Zombies, they’re one of my favourite bands.
Liddell: Sorry?
Akerfeldt: The Zombies.
Liddell: Oh yeh.
Akerfeldt: And, y’know, like the progressive rock from the 70s as well, and, y’know, everything, like Nick Drake and Leonard Cohen, and Tim Buckley’s an idol of mine, Joni Mitchell, and just very much into…
Liddell: It’s just sort of shocking to hear these names, really, y’know, really…
Akerfeldt: Oh yeh!
Liddell: Like Nick Drake and so on, yeh, and the, y’know, obviously, you start the last album Watershed with a very kind of low-key, gentle number as well, and then, y’know, people probably think they’ve bought the wrong album. Y’know, what I mean?
Akerfeldt: Yes, but, y’know, that’s what I like about it. We’ve been going for 20 years now and I don’t want people to feel like they know where they have us, if you know what I mean. They can never have us in their pocket like…they buy an album and it’s a hundred percent safe that they’re gonna love it, if you know what I mean. I wanna, I want it to be unpredictable, not unreliable when it comes to the quality of the music, but unpredictable if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeh.
Akerfeldt: And I think we have a good chance of being a band like that because of the fact that we have so much of that rare influence.
Liddell: Yeh, but also there is a lot of aggression and energy and anger in heavy metal, and I’m sure that when you were a lot younger you probably felt like that. How about now? Do you still have that kind of, that kind of rage feeling inside?
Akerfeldt: No I don’t and maybe it’s, y’know, maybe the music is my outlet that I’m not so very, y’know, like a poetic pretentious person who would say that’s certainly the case but, em, I don’t get like fits or anything, or like… I’m a very calm person, and it might be because I have the music as an out for all the negative emotions, but, y’know, I put positive emotions into the music too, y’know, and, um, I wouldn’t say like I was … if it wasn’t for the music that I’d be killing people, y’know…
Liddell: Yeh, but there’s this kinda, y’know, often people think that Swedish people are quite gentle, nice people, but obviously there is also a kind of dark side as well isn’t there?
Akerfeldt: Yeh, I guess so. We have high suicide rates and that kind of stuff, but I really wouldn’t know. Sweden for me has always been a regular, like the most normal country on the planet if you know what I mean. There’s nothing really abnormal about Sweden as a whole. It’s just, y’know, everything’s working, everybody’s minding their own business, y’know, and that kind of stuff but…
Liddell: It sounds boring.
Akerfeldt: Yeh, a little bit.
Liddell: That can irritate people too, can’t it?
Akerfeldt: Probably, y’know, and that’s the thing that a lot of people who move abroad… It’s something we call the “Jantelagen,” which basically means that you shouldn’t be happy with your job.
Liddell: So, what’s that expression again?
Akerfeldt: “Jantelagen.”
Liddell: “Yank de large?”
Akerfeldt: “Jantelagen” is what we say. I don’t really know where it comes from, but basically you shouldn’t think your something if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeh, so you shouldn’t think you’re something. You shouldn’t be too full of yourself, like that?
Akerfeldt: Exactly. They hate that. Swedish people hate that, y’know, It really – how do you say – sticks like it burns, like for people to see… For Swedish people to see, like, a Swedish person going abroad and making a great success with music or something you love to do it, it’s lots of jealousy. You’re supposed to be working your ass off in the factory and you’re gonna be grumpy and you’re gonna be drunk on the weekend, y’know, but...
Liddell: Very similar to my native Scotland I have to say, yeh.
Akerfeldt: Well, I would guess, y’know. But that can be irritating. But one good thing about Sweden is that we had a long tradition of music, and it's always been lots of bands coming out of Sweden and lots of international acts going to Sweden on a very early stage, like the Beatles started playing there in the very, very early 60s. Everybody's come through, you know, and it generates a great interest for music.
Liddell: Yeah, yeah. Earlier I was talking about the kind of dark side and I was sort of thinking a little bit about the way you sing. There's a kind of 'Jekyll and Hyde' thing because you have these very growly bits and then you have these very gentle bits and you seem to have like two sides there and you can switch effortlessly between them. How does that feel when you do that?
Akerfeldt: I don't feel it at all. It's just I sing, the regular vocals, I sing more from like using my stomach muscles and my, the scream vocals. I use more of my throat. Someone said, like there was a vocal coach who told me that I use the false vocal cords, whatever that is, I don't know what it means.
Liddell: Sorry, what's that?
Akerfeldt: The false vocal cords, I don't know what it is.
Liddell: The fourth?
Akerfeldt: False. False F-A-L-S-E.
Liddell: Oh yeah, F-A-L-S-E, yeah?
Akerfeldt: Yeah. So, basically what it does to me, you know, like the screaming vocals, on the contrary to what you might think, is much lower in volume than the singing vocals. And it really doesn't damage my throat that much, you know, doing those screams.
Liddell: Yeah. So how do you get the volume? Just nearer to the microphone or...?
Akerfeldt: Well, I don't know. It's a pretty good voice for them. Somehow the microphone seems to pick it up.
And it sounds like I'm a beast, if you know what I mean.
Liddell: Yeah, yeah.Like Satan or something. Yeh. And obviously that's just another colour in your palette, isn't it?
Akerfeldt: Yeah, exactly. That's how I started to sing with my first band because I didn't think I could sing regularly, so to speak. And I was into like the death metal style anyway so that's how I started singing and obviously with time I got more interested in normal, regular singing, and started to combine the two pretty early on in our career, and now it's part of our sound, I guess.
Liddell: Okay, well that's plenty of material for my article, so I'm looking forward to seeing you when you get to Japan, so good luck until then.
